Octavia and the "kids", Prescribed Prairie Burns, and Vince of Fordham, his New Girl, and the Bad Choice Location

 

 photo courtesy of www.palemale.com/

 Octavia feeds the eyasses on Pale Male's Fifth Avenue nest.

From Chris Lyons, major watcher of the Fordham Hawks currently nesting on Webster Avenue-

Just saw one of those little white blobby things with a black spot in the center--from quite a good distance away, through binoculars, on the top floor of the building I work in, but I've been doing this a while now.  Popped up, looked around, settled back down again.  The female is sitting at the edge of the nest, looking down,  seemingly quite pleased with herself.  She is mercifully spared anticipation of the difficulties yet to come.

So normally joyous news, but now our preferential option--no hatch, and our new queen decides this nest site sucks, and goes somewhere better next time (like back to the campus) has failed to come about.  So we're stuck with option 2--search and rescue.  We don't even know the apartment number belonging to that window yet.  That's where the search part comes in.

Like I just told Bobby, I'm even concerned about the PRE-fledging stage, since you know that as they get close to taking off for the first time, they like to get athletic, and move around, from branch to branch, or ledge to ledge, and that's really not a good idea in this case.  I hope that rather narrow metal structure is going to be enough space for their pre-flight workouts. 

I've got a potential contact number for the building management--may be a false lead, but I'll pursue it.  They have got to know what's going on.   More as the story develops.

Fingers crossed Chris, keep us posted!

Sorry about the lag in posts, for the last seven days I've been doing prescribed burns of prairies and wetlands. It has been a trip.  

And nearly every burn had a Red-tailed Hawk nest on the periphery.  These areas were Red-tail hunting ground which included a copse of trees for a nest and hunting perches with a prairie spread out before it


The latest was a prescribed burn of 125 acres of wetland prairie. One doesn't want to burn down anything accidentally of course but this particular wetland had a four million dollar house in the middle of it.  

Photographs of rural Red-tailed Hawk nests and  aforementioned burns will have to wait as the photo transfer function of blogger is down.  Sigh.

And lest I forget, the Rose-breasted Grosbeak pair who stopped in for a bite at the feeder. 
 

From Robin of Illinois by way of Jackie of Tulsa--

 A BEAVER CAM!

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/ellis-bird-farm-far-beaver-lodge

It's inside the lodge, and a beaver has been on and off the screen.

MUCH MORE TO COME, PARTICULARLY WHEN THE PHOTO FUNCTION IS BACK UP!

Donegal Browne

Vince Of Fordham's New Girl Would Be Hardpressed to Pick a More Dangerous Spot for Fledglings

Photo by Chris Lyons

Here is the new nest of Vince of the Fordham University Campus in the Bronx/NYBG and his New Girl.

The nest is over looking a street, as most building nests in NYC are.

This one does have a little railing to help keep the nest intact which is nice.

 Photo by Chris Lyons
What isn't nice is what the fledglings will have to clear before they get to a real tree or other green space of any note.

Photo by Chris Lyons

 Here is a note from a very concerned Chris Lyons who photographed the nest site and who has been a chief watcher this area's hawks in the Bronx for many years.

 

I hope this gives you some idea of the situation--these are all taken from inside the campus--the nest is at the far upper right-hand window of that apartment building with the fake columns on the top floor.   It's six stories up.  To safely fledge, the eyasses would have to reach this large oak on the other side of Webster--if they undershoot, they're on the street, and if they overshoot, they're on the Metro North tracks, with no way for anybody to reach them quickly.  If they end up on the ground, in the tiny sliver of parkland between Webster and the tracks--well--people who hang out there are mainly nice, but probably know nothing about hawks.  On my way to lunch, I often see this guy exercising his three playful energetic pit bulls there.  Maybe they'd just be curious if they saw a young hawk on the grass, but curiosity doesn't just kill cats.    

In one picture, you can see a bit of a tail sticking up, but I have not seen much activity thus far. (Photo directly above,tail is center in nest. DB) Most of the time, you can't see a hawk--I will explore other viewing options later on. 

So it's still weeks before we know if the eggs will hatch.  It occurs to me that if the female really likes this nest, she may not be deterred by the eggs not hatching--like all those failed attempts on 5th Ave.   My hope is that the eggs do hatch, and that it can then be arranged for the eyasses to be removed, and possibly re-released on the campus, where the parents could find them.  The NYBG probably wouldn't be a good idea, since the Great Horned Owls are there (well, one of them, and she's probably none too fond of Red-tails right about now).  

Chris is right about the NYBG not being the best option, particularly as I've gotten word that there is a male to go with the female GHO nesting there these days.

Red-tailed Hawk parents do find fledglings who "magically"
appear begging heartily in unexpected places.

"Ziggy", the fledgling of Charlotte and Pale Male Jr, who had originally been grounded on a city street during morning rush hour, was "found" by her parents after being placed in Central Park after a two week sojourn with the rehabbing Horvaths.
 
Donegal Browne 

Chris Lyons Continues the Search for Rose of Fordham

 
 The nest at Fordham with eyasses of a previous season. 

 Chris Lyons, who has watched Rose, first with her mate Hawkeye, and after Hawkeye's death by secondary rat poison, has watched she and her now mate, Vince, continues his search for the missing Rose.   

Chris wrote:
One of the people I contacted yesterday was Bobby Horvath, and he said he hadn't been notified about a female he banded having been found dead or ailing.   There's no guarantee that she'd be found if she died, or that the one who found her would know who to contact--but she is banded, and that may eventually yield information.  

 I'm hoping somebody will have seen her alive, but from what you say, that is sounding less likely.   Rich Fleisher hasn't seen her lately, but he hasn't had much chance to look.  He did see one hawk near the nest some days back, but that could have been Vince.  Over at the Botanical Garden, a sick hawk was found recently, but no mention of it being banded--I'm trying to get more info.  It will take some time. 
I would hate to think it was poison.   Call me a romantic, but I'd rather she died in fierce battle with a a rival female, or a Great Horned Owl, or got hit by lightning, or anything else, anything.   I hate it that we do this to them.  It's a bad way for them to die.  I don't even put out poison for the mice in our apartment anymore.   

 Chris, I completely and utterly concur.  According to STOP THE POISON activists  in NYC, there are numerous towns in California that have seen the light and outlawed rodenticides.  We all need to work to educate the public that sanitation is the only weapon that actually works to stop infestations of rodents.

And poisons are just not an option!  Particularly non-species specific poisons which injure or kill wildlife, pets, and even children every year.  That's too large a price to pay for being slovenly when a little care would nip burgeoning  rodent populations in the bud. 

Also, I received several emails from readers who are unfamiliar with the Fordham site.  Therefore, a few words about the Fordham Nest ... 

The Fordham site is likely the most fledgling friendly building nest in the city.  The overhang protects the hawks from a good bit of weather and trees as you can see, are within feet of the building.

Those handy trees at nest height, make the fledge of these eyasses far more similar to the fledgling environment of hawks in a non-urban nest while having  the shelter of a building to protect the family earlier in life.  


With a short flight hop, the youngsters can "branch" within the trees.  They rarely if ever get grounded and fly back and forth so frequently from the nest that it is difficult to tell whether the eyasses have already fledged or not as they so easily return to the nest.

More as it happens!

And don't forget the NYU HawkCam and chat are up...
 http://www.livestream.com/nyu_hawkcam
Donegal Browne 

Rose of Fordham May Be Missing!

 
 June 11, 2007- Rose of Fordham prepares a pigeon for one of her fledglings, who is doing a high wire act on a nearby pipe, in hopes of luring him back towards the nest.
 
 Initially he takes no notice being fascinated by his new surroundings.
 
 But then he sees Rose and the pigeon. And typical of a hungry eyass flies straight for her.   Rose has to beat a hasty retreat not to be knocked off the roof peak.  Her progeny looks surprised at her rapid exit.

FAST FORWARD

March 19, 2013-As I often do at this time of year, I emailed Chris Lyons one of the chief watchers of the Fordham Hawks, to check on how the resident hawks are doing--  Rose, the female of long standing, and Vince, the  tiercel that came into the territory when Hawkeye, Rose's mate of many years, died of poisoning several seasons ago.   And as they  do have two sites they've used, part of the big news every year is which site they will be using this season.

I was fully expecting that Rose and Vince would have chosen either their Fordham nest site which is their usual choice or as they have much less frequently done, taken up somewhat similar digs in the nearby Botanical Gardens.  And that they would be well on their way to yet another prolific season.

On March 20th Chris responded: Last I checked, all was well with Rose and Vince,  but I just got back from a trip, so I haven't had a chance to see if they're sticking with the old nest site.   Let me get back to you on that. 




Then, Chris Lyon's unsettling response written today, March 22nd...

I'm still trying to assess the situation--I saw Vince today (well, I saw an adult male Red-tailed Hawk who matched Vince's description), but I did not see Rose, and I did not see fresh pine boughs on the nest. I have not actually seen two Red-tails together on campus since I got back.   They were courting a few weeks back. 
Today, I saw Vince grab a half-eaten prey animal and fly around with it, and he would periodically emit these plaintive high-pitched calls.  As if he was waiting for Rose to show up and accept his offering.   And she didn't.  
I'm inquiring with a source at the Botanical Garden to see if maybe she's set up housekeeping there again, but I don't see why she would, since there's no construction going on near Collins Hall this year.   I also emailed Rich Fleisher, [The other chief watcher of Rose and Vince. DB] who hasn't put any new hawk pictures on his site since early February. 
I'm not assuming the worst, but I'm contemplating it.   I may be projecting, but Vince's behavior seemed agitated somehow--even worried.   Maybe he knows something's happened to Rose, and he's trying to attract a new mate before the breeding season ends.  That's not such a romantic interpretation, but it's just as poignant. 
She'd be around 11 or 12 years old now, assuming the nest on Creston Ave. was her first. 

My response--
 

Oh Chris, this doesn't sound good at all.  The behavior on Vince's part is reminiscent of  Pale Male's behavior when he couldn't find Lola.  He'd have food and call and call for her to come and get it.

If Rose is missing, and I can't think of any other reason that they wouldn't be together right now, I'd say that Vince doesn't know what happened to her and is still hoping to find her.

 Comparing Vince's behavior to some of Pale Male's, (PM has been through a good many mates in the last several years), it is only after he'd given up finding Lola that another female appeared in the territory.

 In the case when one of his later mates was poisoned, Pale Male had been attempting to get her to react to him by bringing food to a nearby tree and calling.  Eventually she fell from her perch dead.  Before long Pale Male had a new mate.  In my opinion he'd seen this mate dead, knew she was gone,  and therefore he then allowed himself to be courted.

The biological imperative takes over, and according to John Blakeman there is always a free floating non-mated group of Red-tails looking for an open spot in a territory ready to bond, particularly at this time of year.  If Rose really is gone, Vince will likely take a new mate in time to breed  this season. 

It will be so terribly sad if Rose too has disappeared like so many other well loved hawks of name in the last couple of years.

Do please keep us updated.
Best, D

I always try to look for all the possible causes of any given behavior.  This is stretching it but weirder things have happened.  Perhaps Chris is right and Rose has decided that she'd prefer The NY Botanical Gardens site this year.  Following that thought... perhaps Vince is attempting to convince her that Fordham would be better.

Wishful thinking on my part I'm afraid.   

When it comes to the nest site choice, the formel is the Queen of the World and the tiercel gets cracking making her choice the best nest he possibly can.

I'm still hoping all is well with Rose and Vince.   I'll let you know as soon as I know.   Stay tuned.

Donegal Browne 

Zena Over Nights Plus Vince and Rose of Fordham Take to the Nest

 Photo courtesy of palemale.com
The word from the Hawk Bench in Central Park, is that Zena, Pale Male's new mate, over nighted on Saturday, the 24th.  She likely laid an egg that day, but it is also possible she just had the feeling that it was time to "get situated" to lay an egg. 

 The incubation day count for the Fifth Avenue nest, starts on the first overnight but the span of days between that day and when hatching/feeding behavior is noted tends to run longer than the time frame noted in the literature for Red-tailed Hawks,   which is 28 to 35 days.
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 Photographs of Rose (above) and Vince (below) by Chris Lyons, one of the chief watchers of the Fordham nest.
 

From Chris Lyons of Fordham-

I saw them [Rose and Vince] copulate Monday before last, but hadn't seen either of them on the nest until today, Wednesday,--a head briefly poked up over the rim of the nest--it was Vince, giving Rose a break from her incubation duties.  I found her perched on a tree on the other side of Martyr's Lawn, and got some photos.   Her banded leg was clearly visible. 

I believe this is Rose's ninth consecutive incubation--seven at Fordham, once over by St. James Park, once at the Botanical Garden.  All her known breeding attempts to date have been successful--the last one remarkably so, with four fledged young.   

 And here we have the plucky Vince, named for former Fordham student, Vince Lombardi.  Yes, the football coach who spent many winters in the snow of Green Bay, WI with the Green Bay Packers.  Note the signature relaxed tiercel pose seen in many a photograph of  Pale Male and also of Tristan, late of the Cathedral Church Nest of St. John the Divine.

 And why is Vince plucky?  Because upon his appearance after the demise of the beloved Hawkeye, and his bonding with Rose, Vince was often seen perching rather close and staring menacingly at the Great Horned Owl Dad who was guarding the family's nest cavity. 

And here we have the human habituated Vince turning round, prey in talons, with what could be construed as a questioning look, as in---And you want WHAT?

Donegal Browne

John Blakeman on the Fordham Fab Four, and Pale Male Stuffs them Full

Photo courtesy of palemale.com
Pale Male nabs a large meaty pigeon at the Metropolitan Museum.

Photo courtesy of palemale.com
And Pale Male's hunting skill translates into extremely full crops for his young.

Photo by Richard Fleisher
REGARDING THE FORDHAM FAB FOUR FROM RED-TAIL EXPERT JOHN BLAKEMAN-

Donna,

I note with peculiar interest the Fordham Four. I've never encountered a Red-tail nest with 4 eyasses anywhere in the Midwest or East. These are sometimes reported in the West, where ample ground squirrel prey populations can provide the nutrition needed to produce 4 fertile eggs and to feed 4 eyasses to fledging.

Clearly, the Fordham Four indicate the very large prey populations in NYC, probably a combination of rats and pigeons. Rats alone may be the factor.

The colonization of urban areas by Red-tailed Hawks is not complete, I believe. As more and more of these hawks learn to uniquely exploit urban rat and pigeon populations hawk population densities will continue to elevate.

And no one, to my knowledge, is conducting a scintilla of proper field biology studies on any of this. It's still only street theater -- of the highest quality, but in the utter absence of any raptor science.

If I took an hour or two, I could lay out probably several dozen questions about all of this that need detailed study, particularly because urban RTH behaviors contrast so greatly with those in rural areas. For example, rural red-tails simply spend no time trying to pursue pigeons, even though many barns and farming operations have ample populations. Rural pigeons are simply too fast and alert to be captured by red-tails. Different story -- yet untold in proper detail -- in urban areas.

Still, I'm astounded at the Fordham Four. Until now, I would have predicted 3 as the effective upper limit of RTH broods in NYC. These urban hawks have proved me wrong once again, based upon what I know of the rural populations.

--John Blakeman

I too was astounded by Rose and Vince's ability to raise four eyasses in the first place particularly without any evident change in their behavior noted by observers.

For those unfamiliar with the Fordham nest, only those birds on the edge of ledge can be seen from the ground. Therefore all four of the eyasses would have to have stood on the edge at the same time in order to get a true count. It wasn't until Rich Fleisher was able to get a roof view from another building that the first foursome of eyasses in NYC hawkwatcher memory came to light.

I've not seen nor heard tell of four eyasses of near fledge age surviving in Wisconsin where one or two seems to consist a clutch. Whereas three had seemed to be the New York City limit previously.

I"d read in the literature that some pairs were observed in Alaska with five eyasses. It did not however mention what the main food source prey was for those particular nests.

I received a call from Hawk Bench fixture Stella Hamilton about what prey was going into Pale Male and Ginger Lima's nest.

Stella had promised herself that if Pale Male's nest ever had babies in it again, that she'd buy herself a birding scope. He did so she did. The Stella Scope is now frequently at the Hawk Bench set low on its tripod so even kids can get a good look.

Therefore using the Stella Scope, Ms. Hamilton has been keeping a close watch on what prey is being brought to the nest. And according to Stella the percentage of pigeon and other bird meals have far out stripped that of mammal, including the rats that make us bite our nails, as they might be poisoned.

Which is extremely good news. Even so keep your fingers crossed that a bad rat doesn't go up to the nest some day.

Happy Hawking!

Donegal Browne

Pale Male of Fifth Ave., Rose and Vince at Fordham, Violet and Pip at NYU

Photo courtesy of palemale.com
Don't let that fluffy little head and those big round eyes fool you. Pale Male is surveying his kingdom and nobody with wings stands a chance if they invade his airspace.

Photo by Richard Fleisher All rights reserved
The Fordham nest of Rose, in photo, and Vince.

And update from Rich Fleisher, one of the chief watchers of the Fordham Red-tailed Hawk Nest. No white fuzzy heads yet but Rich, a seasoned hawk watcher, has reason to believe there is a hatch.

Donna, I wanted to update you on the Fordham nest. Keep in mind that what follows is speculative since the nest is on the ledge of one of the buildings and we have no view into the nest. My strong suspicion is that we have chicks (at least two possibly three). I base this conclusion from watching Rose. First, she is sitting high along the edge of the nest where a few weeks ago she was barely visible sitting much lower in the nest. Second, she can be seen clearly shredding food and lowering her head as if to feed. Given the different directions she faces is why I assume that we have multiple eyasses. I have taken recent pictures and as soon as I get a chance to process them I will send some along as well as positing on my Flickr site. I will keep you updated. If I am write we should see some signs of the eyasses sometime in the next week or so. Rich Richard Fleisher Professor

And an update on the next mystery question that is asked after feeding behavior is observed. Just how many eyasses are up there? The Fordham nest is the only nest in which we have observed a hatch of four eyasses in the city. Though the fourth eyass appeared to have died almost immediately after hatching.

This nest is also special in that it is the only nest in which fledglings regularly go back and forth from the nest, to the trees, to other buildings and then back to the nest. Sometimes several times a day. This behavior is far more similar to fledglings that come from rural nests than to the rest of the urban nests perched on buildings, where most often, once off the nest the fledglings ordinarily do not return to their hatching site as it is too difficult to get there with their rudimentary flight abilities.

More from Rich--

Donna,

Follow-up to my email of the other day updating the status of the Fordham nest. Still no little white heads but I continue to be convinced of multiple hatchings. I have gotten around to finally positing onto my flickr site photos and videos that I shot this week. In the video that has both Rose and Vince it is interesting to explicitly compare how much bigger she is. Note that in the video Rose is on the left and further back and yet strikes me as a much larger bird.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/profman_wildlife_photos/

I will keep you up-dated.
Rich

Rich,
Just looked at the videos. Very nice! I'm thinking you may well have a multiple hatch also. In 3254, is Rose mantling to shade an eyass or has she spread her wings to cool herself? Or do you know? :-) It appears to me that Vince is giving the bowl on his side of the nest, the I'm-watching-one-of-my-offspring looks. And if Rose is mantling somebody on the other side that obviously a multiple. But perhaps she's just hot. You're right. Rose is a big girl isn't she? I never noticed this disparity in size with Hawkeye. Perhaps Vince is in the tiercel mode of Pale Male, Pale Male Jr and Tristan--Small, blindingly fast, and very clever.

And on to Violet and wee Pip at the Washington Square nest located on a window ledge of the NYU Library.

Photo captures made with thanks to Livestream
Pip rustles around under Violet who very shakily attempts to go over on her side. Her damaged leg must be the one that is currently propping her up so Pip has more room to move. Then like all good Red-tailed Hawk Mom's she checks the perimeter just in case there might be a marauder out there. First she looks towards Washington square.

Then at the window. Pip wriggles some more. Violet once again shakily readjusts her body.

And as all birds do, even young ones, Pip peeks an eye open to look around before going limply back to sleep for a short amount of time before the next look.

Longtime NYC hawk blog reader and contributor Mai Stewart, has gleaned more comments from the CityRoom blog concerning Violet--

Mary

New York, NY

May 17th, 2011

5:55 pm

It sounds like the people that the DEC sent in were not anywhere near as experienced as Horvath in rehabilitating hawks. It is such a shame that NYU did not allow Horvath to capture Violet so he could remove the identification tag and put her back in the nest with her baby. I worry about what is going to happen to her.

our wildlife is precious

nyc

May 17th, 2011

3:51 pm

Violet can barely put any weight on her right/ damaged/ badly swollen foot. She clearly cannot hunt.
What's going to happen after this eyass fledges in 6 weeks or so, assuming her foot/leg have not deteriorated [further] and Violet has lived that long? What is her life going to be like, especially if she can't hunt for herself?
Once the eyass fledges, Violet will spend almost no time on the nest. How will it be possible to capture her and remove the band then, if she survives the next 6 weeks?
Shame on DEC. Violet deserves better!

Donegal Browne

Redtailed Hawk Update: Chris Lyons at the Fordham Nest, Stella Hamilton oat the Cathedral Nest on St. John the Divine Plus Francois at the Raven's Nes

Photo by Chris Lyons\\
FROM A CHIEF WATCHER OF THE FORDHAM NEST CHRIS LYONS--
The three Fordham eyasses seem to be doing very well, and I'd guess the first fledge will happen this week. First fledge ever out of Collins was on 6/8/06, and subsequent fledges have happened around that time.


Photo by Chris Lyons

Today, for reasons best known to herself, Rose was spending some quality time with her young, instead of the more typical "Here I am, here's your food, gotta fly" routine you see this late in the nesting cycle, with both parents working overtime to feed the almost adult-sized youngsters.

Photo by Chris Lyons
She was there resting on the ledge when I arrived, and stayed for at least another ten minutes--her visit might well have lasted half an hour, or more. Maybe she just wanted to assess their progress, or had some other instinct-driven function to perform--or maybe she was enjoying the chance to hang out with them.

Photo by Chris Lyons
She wasn't actually doing anything, best as I could tell--they didn't need to be beak-fed, or protected, or sheltered from the elements. She was watching her kids pretty intently, while they actually seemed to be much less focused on her (since she had no food). After she flew off, she returned shortly afterward with prey, and departed immediately. No sign of Vince, but he's around.

Photo by Chris Lyons
In a week or less, they'll all be out of the nest. She knows that, even if she doesn't think about it much. What I observed may simply be a way of encouraging them to take the next big step into the world around them. But the simplest explanation is that she did it because she wanted to.

Photo by Chris Lyons
Spot on Chris! I think so too. Thanks so much for the photos and your commentary. It’s grand to have a successful, full nest ready to fledge in town.

Photo by Chris Lyons


Photo by Chris Lyons


Photo by Stella Hamilton
From longtime nest watcher Stella--
Dear Donna,
It seems like our fledgling spent the night on the roof of St. Luke's Hospital. Bruce and I did see one of the parents yards away in one those cylindrical ladders on the roof. We did not see any feeding. Survivor was very active, flapping and running around, but was not begging for food. At. 6:20 pm, Survivor decided to fly back to the Cathedral. Here are some pics. Maybe he wants to go back to the nest to look for some scraps.
Stella

Photo by Stella Hamilton
I found that in the young Red-tails off the nest on County Rd M, that after the first flight they made it their business to get back to the nest for meals. They then found a spot on the nest with good sightlines for maximum exposure of their waiting selves or as there were two of them they began to compete for a branch that was slightly higher than the nest with even better exposure, attempting to be first in line for any food that came in. They made flights in and out of the tree for days. Roosting back in the nest tree as well as taking meals there. They then got the gist of being ready on the side of the tree the adult who has been hunting was likely to come in on. Eventually they began begging from trees further afield but the adults would make them come and get the prey themselves as opposed to a delivery.

Photo by Stella Hamilton
So far no eyass has made it back to St. Andrew as far as I know. They often do get back to the Cathedral itself though. Come to think of it, the Cathedral is the "giant tree" on which the nest resides, so perhaps they're all following a basic Red-tail urge to return to the "nest tree" to be fed.

Photo by Stella Hamilton
Thunder who was hatched on the Tulsa TV tower returned to the nest platform for weeks to get her meals as well.



Photo by Stella Hamilton
Many thanks for the update Stella!

And last but not least, from naturalist and photographer Francois Portmann who's been keeping an eye on the new species in town, the Northern Ravens--


Hi Donna,
The Ravens are "branching"
http://www.fotoportmann.com/birdblog/
Greets
francois


Yea! Jeff Kollbrunner called and told me about some wing disciplining by Mom or Dad Raven with one of the older chicks. I've seen it with Crows and an immature Crow who was stealing food from family members instead of foraging his own. Did you happen to see that sequence on the blog a year or two ago? Three older crows surrounded the bad youth. He flipped on his back in submission, then one of the older crows tugged on his wing until he flew away across the street where they made him stay for awhile..shunned by the flock for bad behavior. :-)

Crows also do foot biting. So watch for both in the Ravens as we now know they do wing tugging they might do foot biting as well.

Donegal Browne