JOHN BLAKEMAN ON KAY AND JAY'S 4 HOUR NEST LAG

Screen Capture by Sally of the Tulsa Hawk Nest Forum
http://www.kjrh.com/content/news/hawks/default.aspx

To Red-tail Expert John Blakeman
From Hawkwatcher Bob McCargar

(Many apologies folks, but everytime I straighten out the formatting in Bob's letter Blogger publishes it all crammed together again. Guess we'll just have to live with it at the moment.)

Hello again, from the KJRH "Hawk's Nest Forum" in Tulsa,Again, thanks for your explanation of "putting over" the crop yesterday.
I hope I'm not imposing, but as often happens, more questions have cropped up, to coin a phrase, and a whole bunch of anxious hawk watchers (is there any other kind?) would love to hear from you again.Here's the crucial question, with a chronology of events below (in both narrative and time schedule forms) for reference should you need additional details: How long can hawk eggs remain untended and still be viable? These eggs were laid on the evening of 3/9 and early morning of 3/11. On 3/29, they were totally untended (except for about a minute and a half when Jay sat on them in Kay's absence) for a total of four hours from mid-morning to early afternoon. During that time, the ambient temperature rose from 36 degrees fahrenheit to the low 40's, with little wind. The eggs were in sunshine for perhaps 20-30 minutes of that time.Besides the viability of the eggs, we're puzzled by Kay's behavior of staying off the eggs for so long. The best hypothesis I've heard is that the driving rain melted the snow and soaked both bird and nest and both simply needed to dry out. She even shooed Jay off the nest when he first tried to settle in. Kay's belly certainly looked a mess this morning. That doesn't explain, of course, Kay's constant calling out, even after she returned to the nest with a full crop in the mid-afternoon.We'd really appreciate hearing any thoughts you might have on this series of events.Bob McCargar

***********************************Chronology Narrative:Saturday,
3/28, it snowed heavily. That night it turned to very cold, windy rain––enough to melt all the snow that had accumulated around Kay. As far as we know, Kay didn't eat all day Saturday.

When she got up, at 7:15 am, she immediately started calling out. She got up about 40 minutes later and walked around, evidently not eager to get back on the nest, but ultimately doing so.

At 8:05 AM, she started calling out in bursts of three calls, pause, and then three calls, for about ten minutes straight, while in the nest.

At 8:32 she got up and walked around the nest platform, s if she were thinking of taking off, and then got back down. She got up again at 8:44, calling out, and stayed off the nest until at least 9:00, when the camera shifted to focus on the downtown area (It's originally a weather cam).

When it returned to her at 9:14, she was back on the eggs.

At 9:43 AM, Kay got up, walked around the platform called out, flew off at 9:50. She returned 9 minutes later, but just stood at the edge of the nest and calledJay arrived for the first time at 10:10 AM. They both looked at the nest, but neither sat in it. Jay left 2 minutes later.
Kay continue to move around the platform occasionally preening (her chest plumage looked heavily matted and possibly still wet). She hopped up to a bar above the camera and moved out of view at 10:35.

An observer on the ground say her perched on a bar sticking off of the tower, at a little before 11:00 AM

With the eggs still untended since 9:50 AM, Jay came in with a stick and placed it in the nest, then left. The observer on the ground said that Kay was "hollering her head off."

Jay returned at 11:20 AM and started to sit on the eggs, but was shooed away by Kay, and he left. Kay left two minute later.

At 11:36 AM, Jay returned and sat on the eggs for four minutes, then left.

Kay returned at 11:40 AM, but just preened and called, walking from point to point around the platform. As she stood right in front of the camera, it looked like she was shivering. At no point in this visit did she sit on the eggs.Kay went off camera, perhaps just to perch on a pole sticking out from the tower, at 1:18 PM, leaving the eggs untended until Jay returned at 2:00 PM and sat on the eggs. Jay stayed on the eggs, rolling them periodically, until 3:12 PM when Kay returned with a full crop.

Jay left on Kay's return, but she still didn't sit on the eggs. Jay came back at 3:17, shredded some bark and puts it in the nest, and then left again. Kay fussed with the nest material for a while and walked around the platform, as if deliberating. She flew off at 3:55 PM, and Jay arrived a moment later and promptly sat on the eggs.Jay stayed on the eggs until Kay returned at 5:50, at which time she tidied up the nest and sat down on the eggs. She stayed on the nest for the remainder of the night (as of 12:10 AM, CDT, on 3/30).*************************************************Time-based observations from early AM on 3/29/0912:17 Am Kay gets up, rolls eggs, and preens briefly06:55 AM Kay Asleep, head tucked under wing07:15 AM Kay awake and calling out--flare from sunlight in camera07:40 AM Flare from sun worse, Kay calling out more vigorously07:44 AM Camera adjusts to improve visibility07:50 AM Kay calling out vigorously07:54 AM Kay up, off the nest, deliberates, walks around, and finally sits back on nest08:05 AM Calling in series of threes--continuous through 8:1408:20 AM Kay looking around and calling in bursts of three.08:32 AM Kay stands up and looks around, walks around nest, looks like she might take off, and finally settles back into nest08:42 AM Calling out, adjusts the eggs, and rotates slightly, from 9:00 to 1:00, 08:44 AM Kay up and about, calling out08:53 AM Kay still up, standing at 1:00, facing the nest09:00 AM Camera shifts to downtown, off nest.09:14 AM Camera back on Kay09:34 AM No one has seen Jay09:40 AM Kay "sitting" quietly09:43 AM Kay calling, stands up and moves off nest.09:47 AM Kay still off eggs.09:50 AM Temp 36 degrees, sunny, no wind09:50 AM Kay gone, eggs in sunshine09:54 AM Kay still gone, eggs still in sunshine09:59 AM Kay back, standing on edge of nest and calling.10:02 AM Kay Still standing and calling. Hasn't been on eggs.10:10 AM Jay in, stands over nest. Kay calling. Eggs in shade. Kay looking around10:12 AM Jay leaves10:15 AM Kay now off the nest for more than a half hour.10:20 AM Kay still moving around platform10:25 AM Kay still moving around, calling10:27 AM Kay doing the same.10:28 AM Kay preening, calling intermittently.10:30 AM Moves to bar right under camera, then to nest edge on right.10:35 AM Kay hops onto bar above camera and off screen.10:45 AM Eggs still untended, temp 40 degrees10:53 AM Eggs still untended10:50 AM (approx) report from ground observer that Kay was on bar above nest cam, calling out "Hollering her head off" He flew off to a tree to the west, started "hollering," and took off. Lots of squirrels and pigeons around.11:02 AM Brief visit by unidentified hawk, evidently Jay dropping off a stick. temp 42 degrees11:09 AM Eggs still untended11:20 AM Jay back, starts to settle on eggs but Kay shoos him off.11:22 AM Kay walks over to eggs, looks at them, but flies off.11:26 AM Eggs still untended11:36 AM Jay in again. He sits on the eggs. Eggs had been untended for 1:5011:40 AM Jay leaves nest.11:41 AM Kay back, stands over nest, calls out, preens11:46 AM Kay stands at far edge of platform, calling and preening11:47 AM Kay still off eggs, standing and calling11:51 AM Kay moves to camera support bar11:56 AM Eggs still untended11:58 AM Kay calling, standing in front of camera12:16 PM Kay continues to stand under camera, looks like she is shivering12:35 PM Kay still under camera12:37 PM Kay still standing under camera01:18 PM Kay disappears off camera01:50 PM Jay back, sits on the eggs02:00 PM Jay on eggs02:14 PM Jay still on nest, quiet02:21 PM Jay still on eggs02:22 PM Jay up, moves eggs, sits back down02:27 PM Jay still on nest03:00 PM Jay up, rolls eggs03:02 PM Jay sits back down03:12 PM Kay back, full crop. Jay gets up, moves off eggs, and leaves. Kay looks like she's going to sit on eggs, but just looks at them and moves to far edge of platform.03:17 PM Jay back with shredded bark, exits right.03:21 PM Kay standing on far edge of platform, then moves to eggs, picks up bark, tries to place it in nest, but wind blows it away03:24 PM Kay still standing, moves toward eggs, then turns away.03:25 PM Kay moves back and forth around the platform, looks at eggs occasionally03:40 PM Kay has been looking around and calling out, standing in front of the camera. Full crop noted03:55 PM Jay flies in, settles in nest04:14 PM Jay stands, moves eggs, sits back down
04:21 PM Jay still on eggs
04:45 PM Jay still on eggs
04:54 PM Jay readjusts his position over eggs
05:22 PM Jay still on nest
05:28 PM Jay still on eggs
05:37 PM Jay still on eggs
05:46 PM Jay still on eggs
05:50 PM Kay back, Jay leaves. She tidies up sticks and bark, then sits on eggs.
06:05 PM Kay on eggs06:12 PM Kay gets up, picks up bark, but loses it in wind

06:14 PM Kay back on nest06:34 PM Kay still on eggs06:48 PM Kay still on eggs
07:10 PM Kay looking around, calling out0

7:14 PM Kay looks to right, calls out0
7:30 PM Kay up, stretches, hops over to rail in front of cam0
7:34 PM Kay preens
07:35 PM Kay back on nest, then gets up, rolls eggs and sits back down

07:55 PM Kay sitting low in the nest
08:00 PM Kay back up, looks around, back to the camera, fussing with unknown object, sits back down0
8:05 PM Kay tucks herself in for the night.
****************************************************************

FROM JOHN BLAKEMAN

TO BOB McCARGAR

Bob,

None of this sounds good. Something's wrong. Red-tails commonly leave the eggs untended for as long as 20 minutes. But 4 hours is way out of line. They almost surely died at those temperatures.

Again, something is not right. The sitting female should not be crying, especially with a full crop.

Frankly, I have no good explanation for any of this, except to say that red-tail behavior often takes unexpected turns, sometimes for no apparent reasons.

Is there a new, competing nest within a mile, diverting the attention of the resident pair from incubation to territory defense? The crying of the sitting female may indicate that. And there may not be a nearby nest, just a new bird repeatedly flying into the old, occupied territory. keeping the pair from full, normal attention of the eggs and incubation.

Let's see what happens. Wish I had an answer.

Not good.

John Blakeman

Keep watching, that is what we do with Pale Male and Lola's nest even after numerous years of failure, because you just never know what might happen. And if the nest does fail in Tulsa, there are things to be learned from that as well. Your observations no matter the outcome will inform your understanding of hawk behavior for the future.

Yes it can be sad, but quite possibly more for us than for the parents. These things happen to animals in the wild and the hawks will stick to the nest often far longer than it would have taken for the eggs to hatch, but then, in my experience, they will gradually reverse the actions they took taking to the nest, often with copulation and courtship before drifting into an easy season without the exhausting responsibilities of parenthood.

And if the eggs have failed to hatch, and the parents seem to have regained their senses, you could always try removing the non-viable eggs, and hoping for a second clutch if it's thought there is time for the eyasses to learn their trade before the realities of feeding themselves in winter comes to the fore.

Though as this problem, if it is a problem, looks to have been parentally induced, some real thought might be given before trying for a second clutch as the same behaviors might occur again.

D. B.

PHOTO BY FRANCOIS PORTMANN

(You can see some of the beak scratches in question in this photograph. In the photo Karen was referring to, I don't have permission to use it, there was also something sticking up from the beak.)

Karen Anne Kolling of Rhode Island had a question about the Riverside Mom’s beak for John Blakeman--

John,Do you think there is more damage to the Riverside Mom's beak, or did I just not notice this before. I only remember her left side being damaged, and I thought that had healed, although it wasn't fully grown out yet. Maybe I just didn't see this side before.


Karen,

That's not a fracture. It's a piece of food, probably a feather of a pigeon, or a slight scratch. Beaks don't, can't, fracture in that direction.

The beak is growing back nicely.

--John Blakeman

There were many more offerings in the past few days from blog contributors but as Blogger isn't being particularly cooperative I'll try to get them posted coming up soon.
Donegal Browne

TULSA RED-TAILED HAWKS-JOHN BLAKEMAN ON "PUTTING IT OVER" AND INCUBATION INTERRUPTED PART 1

The County M formel of N1, near Milton, Wisconsin, peers between the twigs of the nest, seemingly none the worse for wear after sitting through the night in an open nest in the midst of a high wind blizzard of sleet, hail, and snow. Well, except that her coif looks a touch more fluffy headed than usual. A common symptom of Red-tailed Hawks who have had a wet head earlier in the day.

AND NOW TO TULSA-----
Tulsa Hawkwatcher Bob McCargar sent Red-tail expert John Blakeman a video for some clarification...

Donna-

Last night, we saw some behavior from Kay that we hadn't seen before.
(Video here: Wet Kay makes strange head movements (edited)). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBWKAq31ifw
Since none of us in the Tulsa forum had seen it last year or this, I wrote for opinions about it and got this response from our friend, Mr. Blakeman:


"In falconry, the action is called "putting it over." When a hawk does this, with the particular bobbing of the head, she's rearranging new food in her crop, putatively putting some of it down into the stomach for digestion.

The modern understanding of putting it over is that the bird is merely re-arranging the contents of the crop, packing everything in, not pushing any of it into the stomach. The food is more slowly and incrementally let down into the stomach in later minutes or hours. But ancient falconers didn't know much about avian digestion. The phrase has been with falconry since Elizabethan times.

Clearly, the bird in the video had just eaten and she was settling her self in after a nice meal. Putting it over is pleasurable and natural, but it happens at length like this only when the meal is of some size. Were it a single vole, just about one bob of the head puts it over. For a pigeon, big rat, or other crop-filling meal, a somewhat lengthy head dance is used to get things packed in just right. "
John Blakeman

In other news, Tulsa's in the grip of a nasty snow storm today. Here's Kay, modeling the latest in winter headwear for the well dressed raptor:
Kay with a snow cap
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2Epj9Zv6Zk
Bob McCargar

Finally! I now know what Quicksilver my African Grey Congo is doing when he does those quick weird little jerks of the head with a slight neck bend. He too has a crop and he's putting it over!


Bob,
I added the unsightly links, just in case, as sometimes happens, Blogger eats the more sophisticated ones in transfer.


Donegal Browne

TULSA RED-TAIL HAWKS--INCUBATION INTERRUPTED PART 2

From Robin of Illinois--
There is heavy sleet and ice and rain hitting Tulsa, now, and snow on its way, bringing blizzard conditions. Kay is hunkered down as low as she can get on the nest bowl, and it is staying dry (we see it when she gets up to turn the eggs). Someone asked if she has down underneath her external feathers to keep her warm. She really is terribly soaking wet to external appearances. The worst of the storm (the snow) is yet to come.

Hawks do have a layer of fluffy under feathers, though hawk feathers don't have the waterproof qualities of ducks for instance. Red-tails do attempt to shelter during wet weather or sit on a heat producing perch of some kind such as a chimney or lamp post during snow. They do have special large blood vessels that come from the heat rich core of their bodies to their feet to keep them from freezing. Unfortunately formels in open nests don't have the option of finding a less wet place to sit out storms and do become soaked. Though a well fed formel will regularly sit the nest through all kinds of inclement weather, usually without harm to herself. Though we should keep in mind that some nests do fail, and according to the Red-tail literature, there are two main causes of egg failure: lengthy cold drenching rain and birds who must leave their nest unattended repeatedly and/or for long duration in order to feed themselves.

This nest seems to have a possible double whammy coming up, as the winter storm is brewing and Kay may well be hungry.
***************************************************************
***********************************************************************
UPDATES: Sally of Kentucky a member of Tulsa Team Forum, who observe and note the activities of Kay and Jay, has been sending updates all day. Many thanks to her. Unfortunately I was in the field so I wasn't able to post them as they came in. My apologies.

Things certainly could be better in Tulsa---


I will try to summarize the sad and confusing events of today from the posts in the forum. This is all following Kay weathering a horrific-looking snowstorm overnight in the nest without food or a break all day yesterday.

Kay was particularly restless this morning, standing up a few times and calling before settling back on the nest each time.

At 9:44 am she flew off the nest. Temperature was 36 degrees, light wind, eggs lying in the sun.

9:59 (25 minutes eggs were unattended) Kay came back but did not sit on the eggs. She stood and called, perched on the side of the nest and on the supports around the platform.

10:10 Jay arrived, Kay yelled at him and he left. By then the sun was off the eggs and still no one had sat on them. Kay stayed on the platform and hopped up to the bracket near the camera, we think around 10:45.

Catgirl drove to the area just before 11:00 to find Kay on the tower screaming Jay flew off. She found him in a tree screaming. returning past the nest she saw Kay still on the tower screaming. She saw lots of pigeons and squirrels around.

11:02 Jay came to the nest with a stick looked at the eggs and flew off again. 11:20 Jay came back and went to sit on the eggs. He had just settled when Kay arrived and apparently drove him off but does not sit, just stands and watches him leave.


11:22 Kay flies off. 11:36 Jay arrives again and settles on the eggs. He was on the eggs only a few minutes then flew off again.

11:41 Kay returns to platform, stands on the bar and the platform looks at but ignores the nest, calling, preens a bit.


11:50 she flew over to the eggs and hovered above them but did not sit down then walked over to the camera support and stood beneath the camera mostly out of view.


12:00 she is still under the camera calling, and appears to be shivering.


12:16pm she is seen preening all over, shaking her head over and over. (She looked bedraggled and matted early this morning) 12:37 still perched under camera, still appears to be shivering.

As of now at 1:33 pm, Tulsa time the eggs we are sure have been lost, if not during the cold wet snowstorm overnight, surely this morning. Tulsa Team Forum is very sad indeed. Kay was covered in snow at some points, and she shook off the snow a few times to settle back quickly on the eggs each time during the day/evening. Perhaps she knew somehow that she had been unable to keep them warm enough overnight?
Sally




1:45pm Jay is back on the eggs, Kay nowhere to be seen. The gentleman from Sutton Research Center is saying that the eggs could still be viable even if they were unattended ( 4 hours and 15 minutes) We will see. Jay hasn't given up. I'll report later. He's still on the eggs at 2:26 but has not rolled them that anyone has noted.

Sally

Will the drama never cease? Jay came to sit on the eggs, finally, around 1:45 after Kay had left.

She re-appeared at 3:12 pm very fully cropped up like I don't recall having seen her full before, but she still would not sit on the eggs. Jay left and returned with some bark for the nest and left again, and then stayed away until Kay flew off the platform at 3:55, when Jay came back to sit again.


Jay then sat on the eggs until Kay returned at 5:50 and began to sit on the eggs. Kay has gotten up and left the nest to stand on the platform this evening, but went back to sitting on the eggs after a few minutes each time. Things certainly aren't "normal" but at least she is back and appears tucked in now for the night 8:30 pm.

4+ hours of uncovered eggs, plus 40 or so more unattended minutes in the afternoon sun...is there any hope? Guess we will watch what unfolds.

Sally

One cannot help but think that there may be something wrong with Jay's cognitive function, as he continues to misread the repeated cues that Kay is hungry and he needs to bring food to her. He appears to know that trips to the nest bringing something are in order as he continues to bring nesting materials up to Kay. She had shown her displeasure to him for these offerings instead of prey, and has called long and repeatedly for food while sitting the nest. A formel usually will not leave the nest without the male taking her place unless there is an emergency such as defense of the nest or health affecting hunger.

Question for those watching the Tulsa Nest--In the beginning of incubation what was the interaction or lack thereof that meant Jay did not switch with Kay for nest duty? Did he try? Did she refuse to give up the nest? If Kay left did Jay not appear and egg sit? What went on?

Donegal Browne